Canon 7D soft

Hi guys,


I recently bought a new Canon 7D as a back-up camera to my 5Dmk2, as it also has a few more features (better Auto Focus, 8fps) to fill a gap.


When I bought it, I used my 70-200mmL f4 IS lens first, and thought the images were a littel soft... 99% of the time that lens on my 5D2 is spot on pin sharp - even down to 1/30 sec hand held... but thought maybe it was me with the new camera... yet on the weekend I used the 7D with my 100mmL 2.8 (with 4 way IS) to photograph a wedding on the weekend and every image is soft - some are just not pin sharp, and others are really off - even at 1/800 sec.


Of course I am quite disappointed, but my question is - has anyone experienced the same? and is there anything I can try before I take the 7D back to the shop?


I use centre point focus on my 5D2 all the time, and set the 7D the same.


Any help/feedback would be great.


 


Andrew.

Firstly, that's a real bummer, but maybe not a catastrophe.

Cameras and lenses are designed within particular tolerances and should work well together, but sometimes a particular lens it say 5 clicks too far to the font and the body is 5 clicks too far the back or whatever and they're just not a good combination together. Both may work well with other bodies or lenses though.

As you have a 7D, your first option should probably be to see if a simple AF micro-adjustment will sort the issue out. You can read a bit about it here:

AF micro-adjustment

If that doesn't give you any joy, I'd look at swapping it for another copy of the body, this may be easier if you bought it in a store rather than online. You can also send camera & lens to Canon for calibration, but this obviously means you being without your gear for a period of time.

ETA: I know this is a new body you have bought, but this article here makes useful reading regarding the combination of different bodies and lenses.

"This lens is soft" and other myths

(Edited on 2012-07-01 17:38:04 by kelvinjay)

Really interesting!  thank you for this info


I never knew micro adjustments were available/possible... amazing to think that I have never had an issue with any lens on my 5D2 but the 7D does... will do some tests before returning back to the store, and keep you posted.

So I have just spent hours today calibrating my lenses - turns out the two lenses I have not yet used on my 7D were off, and needed adjustment in camera.   Then I moved to the two lenses I have used on the 7D, and using the methods set out in the links above, both were spot on sharp without any adjustments needed!   This leads me to wonder why the brilliant 100mmL consistantly missed focus on Satuday... of course in the tests it says to turn off the IS, so I switched it back on, and there was the issue... is it at all possible that the lenses I have with IS could not keep up with the speed of the focus?   I can't explain it any other way.


Through all the tests, including the last one with the IS on, I always used my 5D2 as a benchmark, and it was pin sharp with all my lenses with no adjustments or IS on/off.   While testing however, I found another strange anomaly... two images, identical subject, shutter speed, f-stop, lens, ISO, distance, and caught at RAW just converted for purpose of illustration...  But what is that strange green glow around the letters from the 7D capture?


5D lamp 


7D lamp


I could assume it is fringing, CA, or whatever, but isn't that a characteristic of the lens, and would therefore be consistant on both cameras?  and we are talking about right in the middle of the frame, no where near the edges... and DPP CA remover does not even have an impact on it!?


By the way... the focus in the 7D shot was the sharpest I could get my 24-70mmL after the micro adjustments.


Oh, and if someone who owns another 7D with a lot of use could tune in as well, this would be great! (assuming Kelvinjay does not)


 


Certainly an interesting afternoon :P

Saying that your images with the 5DII were sharp but the 7D are soft is comparing apples to oranges. The 7D has a much higher pixel density so any softness due to missed focus, movement etc will show up much stronger. Take your 5DII image, crop it to APS-c dimensions then downsize your 7D image to about 8MP. That is a more accurate comparison. I suspect you'll find they are very similar as far as sharpness.


 


Having said all that, I find that if I set the sharpness to 3 in camera (shooting RAW) and open it in DPP I get crisp images without oversharpening issues. The 7D has a stronger anti-aliasing filter that (combined with higher pixel density) apparently adds a bit to softness. Sharpening at 2 or 3 (in DPP) seems to really overcome this.


 


I find that shooting a static object on manual focus with live view at 10x (on a tripod, stopped down a few stops etc of course) is a good way to check sharpness as it eliminates AF and diopter issues altogether.

Just out of curiosity - were you using IS when you had the camera on a tripod or hand-held? Also, what focus method were you using, one shot, AI focus or AI servo?

(Edited on 2012-07-02 14:26:30 by kelvinjay)

Interesting about the sharpening technique... will give that a try.


All the test shots I did to check for micro adjustments were on a tripod with the IS off and focus method set at one shot.   When I was testing the difference between IS and non, I was using hand held - found a Seagull that landed on a lamp post approx 20m away... using my 100mmL on the 7D, the non-IS shot was actually sharper @ 1/160sec.   On the Wedding shoot I didn't use a tripod at all... and was on one shot all the time... they were not exactly running around :P


I guess I have been a little spoilt by my 5D2... never needed any adjustments, always sharp, etc...


I am going to take the 7D out again socially this week with the 100mmL and give it another try... 


 

Just a quick one... but viewing a native (RAW or otherwise) image at 100% should be pin sharp for these levels of cameras, regardless of sensor size or pixel density... I cannot understand why I would have to downsize my 7D images all the time to get them as sharp as my 5D2??? or even adding in-camera sharpening or via DPP... This is just insane for such an expensive camera body!


Part of me now is saying I should have paid what is a relatively small amount to get another 5D2 body and not have ANY of the above issues... 

With the 7D you've taken a step backwards in image quality. Is all. Apples and oranges is a good analogy. The 7D is for faster outdoor work, such as the nature subjects that I prefer.

I am on my second time round the clock with my 7D and I accept the image quality. More importantly, so does iStock.

I am not saying that the 7D should be the same as the 5D2... but THIS example is what I am talking about - shot at 1/800sec 2.8 with my 100mmL with IS on - this was one of five 'quick' shots, and I just cannot see how it is acceptable on any level.


Furthermore, looking through all the shots from Saturday with this lens on the 7D, approx 20% are sharp (when considering the 7D sharpness to be expected as mentioned above)... and looking back through my old 30D pics without L series lenses, and they are also much sharper... If only I didn't give it to my Ex :P

I certainly wouldn't accept that. Mushy, you said? I think that sums it up.

If that's the quality you get with the 7D set on a tripod, then I'd say you have every cause to take it back to where it came from.

I don't use lenses with IS, by the way. Sometimes, IS can bite you in the backside.

For comparison, all my uploads for the last year are from a 7D. You could click up the image magnifier to get some idea of expected quality (after post-processing).

wow... yes, your images are much sharper than 99% of my sharpest images so far with the 7D... nice images too BTW


That example above was without a tripod, as I was on sand and old wooden walkway, and I thought the IS and 1/800sec would be enough to keep it sharp! :/


My suspicions are like you suggested - the IS may be causing the issues.  Never had an IS issue before though, both on my 30D and 5D2... 

(Edited on 2012-07-03 05:08:32 by secablue)

I'd agree that image looks mushy. If it was on a tripod then using IS could be the problem.

And bear in mind that many of my most recent photos have very shallow depth of field, so finding the sharp area can be a real 'Where's Wally' experience.

The only way to be sure is to switch off IS, and take some shots with the camera on a tripod, using a remote release.

Looking at their feet, the planking looks to be sharpest quite some distance towards the camera from them. It looks to me like it's mis-focusing rather than related to IS.

Unfortunately, pixel density DOES matter. I made a jump from a Canon 300D at 6.3MP to a 7D at 18MP. Same size sensor, way different pixel density. Getting a tack sharp image with the 300D was a piece of cake. Going to the 7D it was vastly more difficult. Why? Because you are essentially zooming in on the scene much more closely. Any movement (not using tripod, mirror slap etc) or focus/lens sharpness issues just show up more. That is what I was getting at with all the resizing stuff above. For any given area of your image you are looking at much smaller pixels with the 7D vs. the 5DII. if you have 1 pixel of blur or CA with the 5D it is going to look like alot more with the 7D. Downsize them to the same dimensions and the difference will be gone.

Looking at the image you posted, it looks to me like the focal plane was in front of the subject (look at the boardwalk). That alone would give you the softness you see in that image.


Make sure you do a MFA on that lens for the distances you will be using it (don't adjust it at macro distances and then expect it to necessarily be accurate for portrait work). If you still get focus misses then you may have an issue that needs to be addressed.

Yeah, I was thinking that the focus was missed slightly... which is strange for what is considered one of the best Auto Focus Canons around, and bolted to what is also considered to be one of the best Canon L primes around... maybe the camera is not getting it right?  Looking through my other images which are also mushy, there is no part of the image in focus at all.


I did try to do a MFA on that lens, which using the techniques listed in the links at the top of the thread, found no error at all.  And there were a few images on Saturday which were sharp enough...


I guess after using my 5D2 for so long (with nothing short of brilliant results and no adjustments required), and hearing nothing but good things about the 7D, I was expecting too much from it...

shoot newspaper page (or a book page) at an angle and see if image is the sharpest at your focusing point or there are sharper parts.

I think that your expectations are entirely reasonable and not at all unrealistic.